Note: Can I Say This at Church is produced for audio listening. If able, I strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which has inflection, emotion, sarcasm where applicable, and emphasis for points that may not come across well in written word. This transcript is generated using a combination of my ears and software, and may contain errors. Please check the episode for clarity before quoting in print.
Propaganda 0:00
The point I try to make in the book is like, culture is as healthy as we are if culture is unhealthy, it's because we're unhealthy because we are it. I can't be at war with something I am. You know what I mean? Like it's not separate from me, I am the culture, right. And so are you because it doesn't exist if there are no us, right?
Seth Price 1:03
Back in April, maybe March, I went on to the Twitterverse, right, and I said, you know, if I can get Propaganda on the show, that…that's it, I'm gonna hang it up. That's the show! And you'll hear Prop and I joke about that here in a minute. But I just want to tell you, that was a lie. Because I have other shows I've already recorded and out of respect, out of respect, for those people's time, I can't end the show, that's just that. Now I need you to do something for me. I'm going to need you to just before you start listening, hit pause, and rate and review the show. And consider becoming a supporter on Patreon because it's extremely helpful if I'm just honest, it's very helpful. And with that out of the way, let's rock and roll.
Propaganda 2:24
Are you recording?
Seth Price 2:26
Shoot! No! I meant to hit record. See, I shouldn't be drinking!
Propaganda 2:28
I got you! Yeah. (Laughs)
Recording in progress. (Zoom voice)
Propaganda 2:33
I am and I was able to catch that. So we good.
Seth Price 2:38
(Seth laughs)
Yeah, I had some alcohol for Father's Day. And I'm just trying to get it out. You know, so I can get back on that diet.
Propaganda 2:43
Let's go. (Laughs)
Seth Price 2:45
Why not? I don't have enough. I got that. And these goofy. Look, see?
Propaganda 2:52
I like that.
Seth Price 2:55
I tell dad jokes periodically (Dad Joke shirt gift).
Propaganda 2:57
I love it! I think that works, bro. I love that shirt.
Seth Price 3:00
Wife hates it. And I'm like, I'm gonna wear it. I'd wear it to work if they’d let me.
Propaganda 3:05
Here's the thing babe. I’m gonna wear the shirt.
Seth Price 3:08
I mean the kids bought it with our money shows you bought it.
Propaganda 3:15
of course. That dad life. “Hey here’s this gift for you that you paid for…that I didn’t ask for…thank you.”
Seth Price 3:22
You’ll like it though.
Propaganda 3:23
I’ll love it. You know what? I love it. Thank you so much.
Seth Price 3:29
(Laughing) Alright, here we go. Prop, welcome to the show. You don't know this, because you have too many Twitter followers, but at the beginning of the year, I actually said if I can get the Pope or propaganda on the show, it's just gonna be the last show. Because I'll count that as a success. And that's a legitimate tweet. You go back in and you can find it.
Propaganda 3:47
This better not be the last show! You gotta get the pope also right?
Seth Price 3:50
It won't be the last show.
Propaganda 3:51
Okay, good.
Seth Price 3:52
I have emailed the Pope. They keep saying no. And that also is a true thing. I don't even know if he speaks English. It doesn't matter. We'll figure it out.
But Welcome to the show, man. I'm glad you're here.
Propaganda 4:03
Thank you, bro. Glad to be here, you’re hilarious.
Seth Price 4:07
Yeah, maybe he'll say yes. And then maybe I will do it
Propaganda 4:09
You never know dude, then you're like dammit, I shouldn't have said maybe its the last show!
Seth Price 4:14
Maybe I ended it with ellipses. And so it wasn't the end of the sentence. I don't think that happened because I'm not that clever. Anyway. (both chuckling) So for those that don't know you
Propaganda 4:23
I’m gonna love this show.
Seth Price 4:24
For those that don't know you…who and what is propaganda? Like, why is that?
Propaganda 4:30
Well, the word…what is the word propaganda?
Seth Price 4:34
No! You!
Propaganda 4:35
Oh, okay. Yeah (laughs), I am a rapper and poet. I do podcasts. I’m husband, I'm a father. I wrote a book, which is super rad. I am a West coaster, Californian through and through, I bleed Los Angeles. And I taught high school for six years, son of a Black Panther. I'm the son of a praying mother. I gotta prayin’ Mama! I'm the youngest of my siblings. I am the second favorite parent (laughs from Seth) which has been made abundantly clear when my daughter goes, “you're not my favorite mom is”. I mean you didn’t have to say it out loud. Like we know, but you ain’t have to say it”. But here it is.
Seth Price 5:30
I read that part of your book. And then I read it to my wife out loud. Especially that part about Stranger Things like your internal monologue there where you’re like…”really, why are you? Why are you crying? Get up.”
Propaganda 5:43
It's not real. Go to bed!
Seth Price 5:46
We'll get there but I have a six year old that legit hates me. She will tell you to your face.
Propaganda 5:51
Yes!
Seth Price 5:52
I don't like him.
Propaganda 5:52
That's my six year old! She's like, and sometimes she'll “daddy!” and run and give me a hug. But most of the time she's like, “Can mommy do it? Can I sit by mommy? I don't want to...I don't sit by you. I don't want to ride in your car”.
Seth Price 6:03
Correct.
Propaganda 6:04
“You're not my favorite!”
Seth Price 6:05
Don't tell me Good night. And I'll tell her, “Hey, baby, I love you. Can I give you a hug tonight?”
(daughter) “No, no.”
“Why I love you.”
Propaganda 6:12
Don't say that! You're just like, Oh…
Seth Price 6:14
This is it. Just silence. Nothing. Just stare me down while I walk out of the room slowly backwards.
Propaganda 6:20
What did we do to our children? Like, where did I go wrong?
Seth Price 6:25
One day, she'll realize I'm gonna pay for the wedding. And she'll love me again!
Propaganda 6:29
One day she’ll realize you paid for everything! You know what I’m sayin?
Like, yo, true story. My oldest, this a true story, my oldest, uh, we were…she was…she's 15 about turned 16 now, but she was a single digit age. I don't remember exactly what it was. bBut she was like deathbed sick all through the night. Coughing, barfing, just gross. My wife sleeps through everything. So I'm up holding her hair, getting her water, checking her temperature to the point to where I'm like, I'm getting up so many times. I just go sleep on the couch. Because I'm like, this is just, I keep having to climb over it. So I'm like, I'm just gonna sleep on the couch. Finally, she finally falls asleep like three in the morning. So I was like, Okay, cool. I go. Finally, she's actually sleep. I go back to the bed—in the morning my precious daughter gets up, walks over to her mom's side of the bed, gives you the longest hug and kiss and goes “I love you, mom.” (Seth laughs)
And I popped up and I was like, “are you‽… I was up all night with you”. She goes, “Oh, yeah. Thanks, Dad.”
Yeah. And then my wife looks over at me. And she goes, “Oh, that was sweet. What did”..
Seth Price 7:52
“Is she okay?”
Propaganda 7:53
And I was like, “I can’t believe both of y’all; I can't stand both of y’all.” That was like, I was like, is this dad life? Is this what dad is? Is this what it is? Is this what I signed up for? I guess I'm here.
Seth Price 8:05
I only have one child that likes me. It's my middle child, who is my middle girl. My son, I think hates me. But we're the same person. So we don't like each other. And then I don't know why my youngest daughter doesn't like me.
Propaganda 8:17
I think me and my oldest sort of same person. Yeah, I think that might be why we don’t like each other.
Seth Price 8:20
We've been to counseling Prop and they told us,
Propaganda 8:23
Damn!
Seth Price 8:24
You’re the same person.
Propaganda 8:27
Dang! Okay, you win.
Seth Price 8:30
So yeah, you wrote a book. But you do a lot of things like so. I didn't know what to expect when I read the book. Matter of fact, little before before we got going. So my friend Josh was the one he's like, here you go read this. I was like, I didn't know he wrote a book. So I was behind. I didn't realize it.
Propaganda 8:44
All good.
Seth Pride 8:45
But I read it. I didn't know what to expect to read it. And I'm curious as I read through it about 60%. And I was like, I'm not sure exactly who this audience is? So who is the book written to? Because we'll talk about what the book “is” a little bit of that. I got some questions I’d like to rip apart. I also got a question about listened to you freestyle on that Rapzilla podcast because yeah, it said freestyle. I was like, I actually don't get to hear that all that often. Let me hear it. And you said some mess on Whataburger that we're going to talk about in a minute because I'm a little upset. But that's okay. But yeah, who is the book aimed that?
Propaganda 9:22
Uh, you know, it's like, I always like that question always, like stumps me. Because I think in a lot of ways, I don't know who I'm talking to.
Seth Price 9:34
Editors love that.
Propaganda 9:35
I know, right? I know, the point I'm trying to make. It's like you find it later. who you're talking to? So I think a lot of times maybe I'm talking to myself. Maybe it's a diary. But I know I'm not the only one that thought this. You know, I'm saying I think it's that's more the thing to me. It's like, I know I'm not the only one thought that like, hey, why is everything like this and why is it still staying like this, we could probably do something else. Right? You know? So I'm like, I can't be the only one that thought this.
So it's one of those like, yeah, I think I finally know how to answer that question. It's the part where I feel like my writing is, imagine you're in a room and I'm addressing the like, the, like 400 pound gorilla, maybe not the 800 pound gorilla that everybody sees. But the 400 where it's like, “Hey, I know everybody saw that one. But I can't be the only one that saw this one too”. You know, so I'm gonna say it. And then so I'm hoping that the rest of the room goes, Yeah, actually…! So I don't know who that person is. I'm just thinking. I can't be the only one that thought this.
Seth Price 10:53
Yeah. So a narrative throughout your book, as well as your most recent album, because it appears as though many of the lyrics are in this book, if not all of the lyrics. Maybe I'm wrong.
Propaganda 11:03
Yeah, the albums go with the books. Yeah, yeah. Not all of them but a lot of them.
Seth Price 11:06
Wait. You said books. How many books have you written?
Propaganda 11:08
I mean, I meant albums. The album's go with the book. There are four albums. There's three more albums to go with the single book.
Seth Price 11:16
Wait after Terraform? Where are they? When are they?
Propaganda 11:19
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the book is broken up into four sections, the Sky, The Soil, The People, The Possibility. The People's already out. The Sky is coming out within the next couple of weeks. And then there's The Soil and The Possibility. They're all coming.
Seth Price 11:34
I missed that. See, I'm just not, I'm just not with it.
Propaganda 11:37
It's all good, bro. Don't worry about it.
Seth Price 11:38
Yeah, well.
Propaganda 11:40
You sent your one tweet in the beginning of the year…
Seth Price 11:44
Expecting nothing to happen.
Propaganda 11:45
And then yes, here you are.
Seth Price 11:46
And again, this is the I'm gonna finish this beer, we'll finish this conversation, I might not even edit it, because that's the end. (Laughs) So you are talking about culture in a way that I like. But I feel like you're using the word culture in a way that most people do not normally use culture. Like, we use culture as a weapon, as ammunition, as an arrow, as whatever aggressive way we need to get my point across because those people are wrong. But you seem to be using culture throughout the book in a different way. So what is culture? And like, why are you approaching it from that way?
Propaganda 12:20
I love it, man. I think, because of like the advent of like the culture wars, you know, especially like in that like, sort of like, right wing evangelical space who treats the culture as something separate from them. You know, it's just academically and, by definition, a misnomer. It's just false. That's just not how culture works.
Culture is two humans, trying to figure out how to survive, it's the things that they come up with that you make up out of the clear blue sky between you and the other people that is necessary for survival. Language is culture. You know, I'm saying?
It's, this is…humans made it, you know, I mean. So, all of our institutions, it’s us. So the point I try to make in the book is like, culture is as healthy as we are, if culture is unhealthy, it's because we're unhealthy. Because we are it. I can't be at war with something I am! You know what I mean? Like, it's not separate from me, I am the culture, right, and so are you. Because it doesn't exist if there are no us.
So I was approaching it from that sort of, like, academic perspective of like, how you define culture, you know and then from like, a more like, for lack of a better term pop culture sense, then that means that the power is in our hands balls in our court, you know, and then we get to define what it is, you know, then I try to give examples of like, what I mean by like, we make culture and then eventually culture turns around and makes us. Which is a motif I got from this guy named Peter Barger, he's a sociologist.
Seth Price 14:19
Yeah, I like that take. And I think I like it. And I actually don't think I put it together until you just said that out loud. Because you said it slightly different than some of the words in the book. But to be clear, again, I may or may not have been drinking when I was reading the book.
Propaganda 14:34
It’s all good.
Seth Price 14:35
Um, I think that when you and I choose to miss the mark, we create hell, or bad culture, or we can choose to create a kingdom.
Propaganda 14:46
Good culture.
Seth Price 14:47
One or the other and that's literally sin and the Kingdom of Heaven like you and I making it or we're also still making it we get to, we get to actively participate in the creation of this. So I use the word kingdom. You I se the word culture and I kind of like it. I do want a definition, though what is the age range for an OS1 Millennial?
Propaganda 15:08
Man, from what I understand,
Seth Price 15:10
Cause that's not a term that I know.
Propaganda 15:11
No, no, it's it's like we're the first wave of them. So from what I understand you was born between ‘79-‘83
Seth Price 15:19
That's me. Yeah. Because as you describe it, I'm like, I feel like that's me. I can remember when I got caller ID. I can remember doing work on a Basic computer with a Mac floppy disk the size of this mac book that I'm talking to you on.
Propaganda 15:34
Yes.
Seth Price 15:35
And then I graduated with T1 internet. Which isn’t even a thing people know what T1 is!
Propaganda 15:39
Yeah, I'm saying. But like, it's like, you're, it's like this weird moment to where like, your maybe if you were like younger than your siblings, like for years, they were printing out directions. Like they're still using MapQuest. And it's like, this is my sibling. This is my older sibling. And I don't understand why you're asking me directions. Here's the address. You know, I'm saying? But you remember printing out at some point using MapQuest looked like you were young enough to be like us great to use MapQuest anymore!
Seth Price 16:17
Yeah, you know, though there's something to be said for, I guess, that we’re similar in age because I fall right in right into the middle of that.
Propaganda 16:25
Yeah that in between. I’m not Generation X, like, I'm not an X’er.
Seth Price 16:31
I do find it easy, though, especially for what I do for a living. I can relate well, to people that know how the internet worked. But also then, like, I can empathize with an older generation. That's like, I just don't quite understand this.
Propaganda 16:42
Totally.
Seth Price 16:43
Please help me. I'll make sure. Let me let me explain it to you in a different way. Yeah, yeah. And like, I also still find it innately easier than some of my siblings or younger friends to just navigate around the city because I'm like, yeah, that's…”avenues run this way (and) streets run this way. Circles run this way.
Propaganda 16:58
I don’t have to use my maps.
Seth Price 17:00
If it's an even number Interstate, that's an east and west one. You know, there's an odd number, it goes up and down. And it starts at 1 in California. And we got the 90s on the East Coast over here where I'm at. So yes, whereas I81 is mine and 70 is to the west of me.
Propaganda 17:12
Yes, it's over there. Yes, that's the perfect example. I don't ever use my maps. Unless I don't know the place. But most of the time, I'm like, Oh, yeah, it's off. What city is it? Okay, it's off. Its off the 10. It’s North of the 10. Because Larchmont is north of the 10 yeah. Oh, yeah, you just go. I'm pretty sure I can get off on Western Crenshaw or Labrea it's gonna be up there.
Seth Price 17:35
I’ll figure it out.
Propaganda 17:36
Yeah it is fine!
Seth Price 17:37
I'll figure it out. Yeah, we'll be over there. That's when my wife and I were out in Phoenix not long ago and we're trying to find a place to get ice cream. And we didn't intend to be in Phoenix we left from vacation where we were at we on to the Grand Canyon. And she's like, well, we're gonna get lost and I’m like it's gonna be fine. Like the roads out here work the same way as the roads in Texas. She’s like we're not gonna find it. (and I say) Yes, we will. It's gonna be…see there it is. Found it. Let's get some ice cream.
Propaganda 18:02
Yes! 10 West-California, 10 East back home, simple.
Seth Price 18:08
Well, back home to Virginia is a long way. So yeah, um, so I mentioned Texas and then in this Rapzilla interview, which I'll link in the transcript I'm not going into it in the show notes but I will put the transcript. You threw out some issues with Whataburger
Propaganda 18:22
I did!
Seth Price 18:23
You're basically saying like they don't know how to make french fries. And so I am from Midland, Texas, born in Odessa. I don't play games.
Propaganda 18:28
Here we go!
Seth Price 18:29
And I shouldn't have listened and I should have stopped listening. Why like that hurt‽
Propaganda 18:33
I have attacked your soul because your identity is tied into I find this with every Texan. I can't talk about Dr. Pepper. And I can't talk about Whataburger.
Seth Price 18:45
You can talk about Dr. Pepper. You can't talk about Plano (he meant Waco :) ) but you can talk about because there’s the Dr. Pepper in the store that named Dr. Pepper. But then there's the Dr. Pepper in the glass bottle that you can only buy in Plano (again meant Waco) don't talk about that. Dr. Pepper.
Propaganda 19:00
So here's the thing. I am saying like as a reflection of yourself, there are things about California that I understand. I will agree. Roscoe’s Chicken and Waffles is not the greatest chicken and waffles.
Seth Price 19:15
But it's your chicken and waffles.
Propaganda 19:17
But it's mine. And I will defend it to the death. (Seth laughs) Because it's California. Because it's open because it's Pico and Labrea. But what I'm saying is I have this self awareness about that. And I just feel like you're Texas don't have that self awareness about Whataburger. It's not that good!You know what I'm saying? I'm like, but I understand your emotional tie to it. I understand. I understand that spicy Sriracha ketchup. I understand that. I understand that. But that's a condiment. That's not the burger. (Seth laughs again) That's the condiment and what I'm saying is I understand that it was open at 2am after Friday night football and the whole school went to it. I get it.
Seth Price 20:01
It was that or IHOP and IHOP sucks
Propaganda 20:03
And IHOP sucks!
Because you could say that's verifiably bad food. But, but you could have mediocre food tied to your high school 2am experience…
Seth Price 20:13
And call it In and Out Burger (Prop looses his mind here you really should watch this exchange)
Propaganda 20:14
I get …. OOOHHHHH! (Prop backs away from the screen in shock)
Seth Price 20:16
Oh, I’m kidding, I’m kidding.
Propaganda 20:19
That was good! That was good! That was good! But I could say that Fat Burger, Roscoes, it's mediocre food (but) In N Out is a different story.
Seth Price 20:35
I’m teasing, yeah, and then one last question just because I don't ever speak with a coffee aficionado and that's why I stalk you on Instagram, not for anything else other than coffee. Um, so I just I'm, I'm a cheap guy, so I just drink the Folgers black but I just want to know…
Propaganda 20:51
I’m sorry.
Seth Price 20:52
Man, I know. That's what I can afford. Right, Man to man? How should I be drinking my coffee? Like if I could choose what should I be doing? Because I'd like to be better.
Propaganda 21:01
Um, I am over the bell curve of like, snobbyity for coffee.
Seth Price 21:11
So just Folgers then?
Propaganda 21:13
No! But I will say this, if you're gonna do Folgers. If you're gonna like, “I just need it done. And good”. If you're not going to take the time there are now there are plenty of places that have figured out how to freeze dry espresso, and you can like steep it in like little tea bags. It is pretty amazing. There's a spot called Honest Roasters that did this. But I will say this, to this day at my wife's grandma's house. My mother, you know, my grandma in law, I don't know what you call her. You know, Acapulco, she's in Mexico. She will boil her water with cinnamon sticks in it and then pour that into some Nescafe instant coffee. And it's delicious. And it's instant coffee with cinnamon water! And it's amazing. So if you just want it done, get it done. And not as burnt and paper taste as just some Folgers from your drip machine. Which again, I would never judge you if that's what you’re gonna do, that’s what you're gonna do.
Seth Price 22:29
Six year old, that's all I got time for.
Propaganda 22:30
Exactly. I would say get some Nescafe, boil some water with some cinnamon sticks, use that as your instant coffee water. And it'll already be better than that Folgers!
Seth Price 22:40
With cinnamon sticks. Okay, yes, I can do that. So getting back to why I actually have you on because I got those out of the way they've been itching in my head, you know, probably since January when I sent that out. So there's a part in your book where you you do a lot of “Let me tell you what I'm not gonna do”. Yeah, back to back. So there's a part in here where you say,
I'm not going to tell you your pain is a usable commodity for the rest of society. It's up to you what you do with your healing. But I will say this, you should choose to tell your better story, it will transform you into a terraformer of the worlds of your listeners.
It's that last part that I want to drill on, like what are you getting into? They're like terraforming the worlds of your listeners; specifically, because a lot of people I don't think, realize that they have a platform and like that people are paying attention.
Propaganda 23:26
Yeah, you'd be surprised how many people are actually listening to you, whether you have a podcast or not, you know, or a platform or not, you have a platform in somebody else's life. They're watching you. They're understanding, they're learning the world from you. Whether directly or indirectly, it's happening.
So I think there's an importance of understanding that how you choose to navigate the world, for better or for worse, is shaping somebodies worldview, you know. And it's just a reality because again, full circle, that's just how culture works; we're influenced by each other, you know. And how you navigate pain is up to you, you know, but I think there's like a reality of like, if your pain was on display with the people around you…there is a great amount of like power and influence in your healing also being on display to those same people, you know. But I think it's…I don't like hearing people saying, “hey, you need to share your healing because you're going to heal somebody else”. Because I feel like well…they didn’t go through it, you know, what I'm saying? Like that was something you went through. And I think that like I don't want to ever add any extra pressure or guilt to a person who maybe that thing is deeply personal, maybe there are no like, words, you wouldn't even know how to share it. Maybe sharing would open the wound. I don't know.
But I didn't want to make it seem as though like your whole life is transactional. And sometimes I feel like we we treat each other as, like, all your experiences are transactions and they are for me, you know? I mean, “what do you mean for you, no, there for you if I want them to be”, you know. But I just wanted to make sure I wasn't robbing people of agency. But at the same time, the reality of like, whatever you choose, it's informing the people around you.
Seth Price 25:44
I want to talk a bit about beauty and truth. So there's a part in your book that honestly this sentence still doesn't make any sense to me.
Propaganda 25:52
Uh oh…
Seth Price 25:53
And that's okay. It's probably me. So you say
self awareness makes graciousness?
For some reason. Those words just don't…I don't maybe…I don't know. I don't know.
But towards the tail end of that paragraph, you say, you know, so I wonder which modern debates will sound silly in 1000 years, as you're talking about, like, you know, like Ancient Greece and ancient, like, they all thought that this was the thing and the sun was chasing, it's like, and we think that's silly. And I do think that's right. Neil Tyson Degrasse has the thing about, like, the way the space time bends space, and like, the stuff that we don't even see, and how like, 1000 years from now, we're not even gonna be looking at the same stars. And like, we don't even realize all the context that we lost. And I think that's a beautiful way to look at a divine being or just life in general.
Propaganda 26:41
Absolutely!
Seth Price 26:42
But yeah, I don't understand “self awareness makes graciousness.”
Propaganda 26:44
I love it. I love that you asked that. That's one of the questions that I was like…I was hoping someone would ask me. What I mean by it is this. The more you understand yourself, the more you see, truly your strengths, self awareness is both, it's your strengths and your weaknesses. It's your beauty and your flaws. And then the flaws that are beautiful. It's the whole gambit, I know what I'm good at; I don't have any pretense about some sort of false humility, or some sort of puffed up, you know, prideful thing about myself, but I know what I'm good at. I also know what I'm not good at. I also know what I need help in where I'm struggling, where I'm inconsistent and I'm still working it out. You know, I'm saying? And I know that there's a lot that I don't know, you know. So I think that the more you see it in yourself, and all the work you did for so many years to hide it then you now see it in other people. And you can go, “Oh! This fool is hiding. He's hiding an insecurity—hiding in insecurity”.
So I'm like, I can be more gracious with this person, I don't have to respond to their defense mechanism with my own defense mechanism. I can be more gracious and be more patient with this person because I understand. Oh, it's me. I've been doing this for years. I'm like, Oh, you have a weakness. Oh, you have a wound. You're functioning from that wound. Okay.
Seth Price 28:30
Yeah, that makes sense to me. How do I do that in a social media environment that is as politicized as the world that you and I live in today?
Propaganda 28:40
Oh, you block them! (laughs from both) I’m just kidding!
Seth Price 28:45
I can't block Mitch McConnell.
Propaganda 28:45
Yeah, I know. Right? You just, with Mitch McConnell, that's great. That's a good example with him. It's like, I don't have to engage with this dude. Because it's one of those things where I'm like, you and I both know what you're doing. You know, and you're not going to stop and me calling you on is not gonna make you stop doing this because it's working too well for you. So I'm not gonna stop you from doing this. I don't even have to respond. Because like I said, is that going to change anything? So I think for me, in a social media space, is that calculus of like, is this person first of all, is this person an actual person? Like, or is this a (some kinda troll)
Seth Price 29:24
Yeah, I don't necessarily mean on social media. I just mean, that is the mentality that we bring into our real life relationships. Totally. Yeah,
Propaganda 29:32
Totally. Yeah. But I think that, yeah, given that context, I think we're all putting our best self, you know, or we are at least curating what the world sees about ourselves on the internet. And the same way we did in real life. We still curated what people saw about us, you know, I'm saying? And then something kind of like get over the fence and you see the real you which, you know, is hard for anyone. But I think that when you remember that about a person throughout the internet is like they're choosing which part of them they're showing. And I can choose to engage in that or I can choose not to engage in that. Because the truth is I probably don't really know this person. And I don't have to care. I could turn off my phone.
Seth Price 30:24
Fair enough.
Propaganda 30:25
I think that that was the freest thing to me where I was like, Oh, wait, I don't have to care.
Seth Price 30:30
You wrote a song about that. “I'm just here for the comments.”
Propaganda 30:35
I'm just here for the comments bro. I’m completely not worried about this. Yeah, and even when I do get into it, like with somebody like, part of me is like this grant I have on my face now is great, because I'm like, you don't understand how uninvolved I am in this convo, it makes me no difference.
Seth Price 30:57
I just came in here to like everybody's post, and then I left.
Propaganda 31:01
And I'm gone! Sometimes, and especially when I know that I know what I'm talking about. And I'm like, I don't have to convince you because I know I know what I'm talking about. You know what I’m saying? And then when I don't know what I'm talking about, then oftentimes I'm like, “Okay, well, let me listen to what thi… actually let me do listen”. But I am in control of my engagement to this not them.
Seth Price 31:24
Yeah. I will be right back. It is time to do the things you know what I mean. (music and ad break)
Seth Price 32:21
You have terraforming exercises or practices at the end of each episode, I forget which one was my it's the one where you like list out like all the people. But besides the one where you've smartly listened to your wife about grounding, and it appears as though you're still not taking off your shoes. But besides that one, which one is the hardest for you personally, on a consistent basis to ensure that you're doing to stay healthy?
Propaganda 32:53
Man, that's good, man. Wow, let me go through them. I gotta go through them in my head. Wow. I think probably there was a part about the self reflection, I think in The Truth is Yelling at You chapter that was about what is this mundane, obvious, thing that's happening that's hitten at you in a certain way that is clearly trying to communicate something to you about you. Because I think oftentimes, like I get in the moment, like anyone like I tell you what, like just now my printer (when was the last time we ever actually had to use the printer).
Seth Price 33:51
You still have a printer? That's amazing. Because you are an OS1 Millennial
Propaganda 33:56
Yes! And because like, I get furious anytime I have to print something, because I'm like, this is stupid. Why do I have to do this? But my kid is going to a Pride March tomorrow and they needed a permission slip. So I emailed it. And they were like, can you print it? And I'm like…
Seth Price 34:21
We're gonna need a wet signature.
Propaganda 34:23
Yeah. Word, okay. And then for the love of me, it just kept jamming! And I was like, this is the dumbest…it doesn't have like, I'm so pissed as to like. And while I'm trying to figure it out, my wife goes, What do you have planned tomorrow? And I wanted to like turn and become a dragon and be like, are you serious right now‽ You want me to okay, this is what I'm gonna do! I'm gonna stop and check my calendar right now! While I'm trying to print this thing for our daughter, you don't see that I'm trying to…! You know, I'm saying so like, but I think what was happening was, I felt out of control. And I think that now I didn't (lose control), I was able to catch it because I practiced this terraforming thing, able to be like, you just, you're just irritated that this isn't working. Your wife's question is valid. And just explained to her, “Can I tell you later, I'm really frustrated about this…”
Seth Price 35:37
I’m gonna yell at something, I don't want it to be you.
Propaganda 35:39
I'm gonna yell, I'd rather yell at this inanimate object. You know? So I think that like one of the most difficult things is to continue to have that wherewithal, like, the truth is yelling at you. You're mad, because you're out of control. And that, like, ability to reflect is something that like, I try to like struggle day to day to make sure that that's what's happening.
Seth Price 36:05
Yeah. I have a really simple question, but it's because I honestly have no idea. Why do ziggurats get a shout out and an explainer in a book about terraforming? Why ziggurats? Like, why does that need a parenthesis says, “by the way, here's what ziggurats is” Like, why?
Propaganda 36:19
Because, there's a number of reasons (chuckling). One because I get teased about, they say that…like one of my homies is like “Cali dudes-dudes that are raised in LA just randomly use big words. And oftentimes, they don't know what they mean”.
Which is, is a pretty good…that's pretty true. (laughs) But I think that also as an educator, so, like, I taught high school for six years. Whether it was my music, whether it was high school, or my music, or preaching, or whatever the case may be, there's some moment that I never stopped for understanding. And, it was like, it's a critique, it's feedback, that I get often is that you throw out these things, but you don't go back to it; like what are you talking about here? So I was trying to be aware of the fact that like, okay, this is what I'm talking about. And I thought ziggurat was just such a time to do this.
Seth Price 37:19
I mean I highlighted it I was like, “What?” I mean, I know what a ziggurat is. Why is this…
Propaganda 37:24
It is such a deep cut that I felt like, and part of me was like, for those that know, they will get a kick out of the fact that like, this fool just shouted out. ziggurats! Why did you do that? You know? Like, it is a little easter egg for somebody like you.
Seth Price 37:40
Okay well, so you referenced the enneagram once in here, like something with a three wing or whatever. I'm a five. So like, I need all the books. And I want all the knowledge. And I like to hoard it when I'm not healthy. Which is probably why I do this, whatever. So I do want to ask you about this chapter and I don't know where it'll go. So you say
I'm a full blown libertarian, total free market economy guy, if it wasn't for racism.
and then you go on to go on and on about that. But I don't feel like that's a sentence that most libertarians say. Are you actually a libertarian? Like, what is that? And like, why does racism have anything to do with libertarianism for those people that have not read the book?
(here the internet takes a lunch break)
You know, I broke up? I'll say it again.
I said so you say I'd be a full blown libertarian total free market economy guy if it wasn't for racism? But most libertarians don't say that. And I don't know that many libertarian friends of mine would say that those two have anything to do with one another?
Propaganda 38:40
Yeah.
Yeah, so the biggest issue is, if I were to say this, (you're not frozen, are you? I’m not)
Okay, cool. Just your thumb was moving? I was just making sure. (laughs from both) There it is.
It's because when I think of what finally freed us from slavery (it) was a war. And then an amendment. And then military enforcement. What push the civil rights movement? Well, that was just government intervention. Because when we left white Americans alone they're not going to choose us. You know? My own dad, like after his freakin GI Bill after the Vietnam War. still couldn't get a loan. You know, and it, it took laws. It took government intervention for me to finally like why being able to swim in pools. It took laws, you know what I'm saying? So I'm like, I can't trust you know, White supremacist America, I can't trust you. Because if I leave you alone, you're going to oppress me.
So I'm like, I can't trust you. If I could trust you to understand that, like, this is detrimental to both of us-that's different. So that's why I'm saying like, you know, I would totally be like, dude, just, bro. Like, I'm fine. Leave me alone. I don't want no handouts. I want nothing from none of y'all. I'll figure it out. And if I fail it's because I wasn't good at it. You know, I'm saying, but if I'm doing that playing in a playing field, that's clearly uneven, and you stack the laws against me. Then at some point, I got to look at the ref and be like, “yo, ref I'm not…dog like y'all seeing this! Can you do something about this”? You know what I’m sayin’?
Seth Price 40:53
Okay, yeah. Now that makes sense. Maybe it was you. Maybe it was a good friend of mine. I don't know who it was. But I remember one time somebody saying all of the rights that I have been privileged too just from being born with this color skin (not white skin) were given forcefully and belligerently by legislation to him. I don't remember who said it actually.
Propaganda 41:14
Yeah, but that's the thing. All the rights that I have was like we had to, every step of my life everything I enjoy, I had to fight separately for and my culture had to fight separately for each one. Yeah. For each one of them.
Seth Price 41:28
Yeah. So I read your book on a Kindle. And so I'm not sure that the haikus come through here. But you talked about handouts a minute ago. And it reminds me of a part of your book, it's literally one of the few that I bookmark where you say
the Rona just yelled, haikus. Here's what I heard. You live together, you don't really know your kids make conversation,
which that's really true. And last year taught me that. Yes, sadly,
money is not real.
I'm a banker. So I agree.
1.5 trillion from the Feds. Where's your health care, son?
How do we…I agree, Terraform, your book is not about health care, but I can't not address that Haiku. So I don't even know if that's a haiku, because I don't really know how to do it like 7/5/7.
Propaganda 42:11
5-7-5. Yes you got it. 5-7-5
Seth Price 42:14
I don't know. So why is that here? Like, why is it in the book?
Propaganda 42:17
I think because at the time, again, we're talking about a virus covering the planet and you worried about the stock market? Like I just was just like, this is the…I don't understand where…why is…you got 1.5 trillion, but you're saying it's not enough money to cover health costs due to a (global pandemic)? It just was just such a picture of like, “Oh, so you have the money. You just won't”? And I'm like, but don't you…you know, is not real? Right? Like you can you could pay for health care. You could pay for this! I don't understand. Like, you know, you could and it's so it was just such a bizarre like, whether I have an opinion about it or not. It was just like, just like, you know, I'm gonna give a silly example. I am lactose intolerant, right. So this just ruins Italian food for me.
Seth Price 43:38
Really? you can’t have pasta if you're lactose intolerant?
Propaganda 43:41
No, I can't have none of the cheese. So like the gluten is an issue too, but I'm just like, what, what is Italian food without the cheese man, who know what I’m saying? So anyway, I'm like, if you, for example, like so I'm like, I don't have a horse in the race per se, but if I see you're making, I don't know, some Fettuccine Alfredo, or whatever the case may be and you put in Velveeta cheese on top of that. I could be like, yo, you finna put that on...
Seth Price 44:18
It's not even cheese. (laughs)
Propaganda 44:19
That's not cheese! Like, why are you doing that? And you're like, we don't have money for actual Alfredo. And I'm like, but Alfredo (is) cheaper. I'm like, I'm not gonna eat it! I don't have an opinion! I'm just saying that don’t make no sense. Why would you say that? It is nasty! I'm like, Velveeta, does not…it don't taste good. I've been poor before. I wasn't always lactose intolerant. But when I was and when we were poor and that’s all we had, I was like, this is not good.
The Alfredo tastes better. What is you doing? You know? So in my mind, that's the way I saw this, I was like, well, this don't make no sense. What the hell! What the hell…you saving the stock market? What the hell is the stock market? If everybody deadt? I don't understand what you worried about an economy if economy is humans‽ But if we die, then what is you savin? I'm just like, I don't understand what you're talking about.
Seth Price 45:18
Yeah. Also money isn't…like I think it was Ben Bernanke, like in an interview like MSNBC or CNN he’s like, yeah, we just call up the Fed and tell them to add a zero and the banks have it, so we fixed it. That was like in the that was right when Obama became president. Yeah, like, it's literally like, you hear him saying, like, he…
Propaganda 45:43
Oh, I said he it out loud.
Seth Price 45:45
And it's true. It's just, we just fixed it. We just added a zero because, you know, we didn't need to print it. We just said that it was there.
Propaganda 45:52
It's not real!
Seth Price 45:54
And now it is, now it's there! So we fixed it there. Yeah, we don't know why there was no inflation that time. But it's there. But it's there. Yeah. So one last question. And it's about there's a line in here that says,
Just breathe even if the bag isn't inflating oxygen just flows.
I love that line quite a bit. What do you want people to get out of that? Like, where should that be? Like, for me, that's become almost like, I have it written on my desk, because I get pretty stressed at work. Like I just like that line. So what do you want people? When when would you like that to be instituted?
Propaganda 46:33
I love it. Because it's, you know, I'm taking it from airplanes. You know, when you're doing the little safety debriefing, they'll say like, if the cabin gets depressurized oxygen mask will drop, put it on your face, and just breathe. It's not going to inflate, but the oxygen is flowing. So they're trying to warn you that like, it's not gonna look like…
Seth Price 46:59
Don't freak out.
Propaganda 47:01
Don't freak out. It's not gonna look like what you think is supposed to look like, but you're fine. So I think that like, what I was trying to address with this is like, okay, if the oxygen masks like dropped down on a plane it's a pretty legitimate reason to panic. You know, so you're in crisis. So what I was trying to address is like, this is a legit, I'm not saying your crisis isn't legitimate, it's probably absolutely legitimate. Because the oxygen mask wouldn't fall if it wasn't a legitimate crisis, you know?
But what I'm saying is like, your job is to breathe; because breathe is the reminder that you're going to be okay. And even though it doesn't look like it's working, I swear to you, it's working. You know, I'm saying? So I think that that's like, that's what I was trying to communicate is like, I promise you, I know it don't look like it. Because, duh, if I blow into something it's supposed to expand, it's physics. But what I'm trying to say is like, I know, but still do it. You know, but still breathe. I promise you it's working. So it, obviously, it's like a lofty way to say that, like, hey, if you just continue to take care of yourself, these things, it will work out. And even if it doesn't, you will be fine. You have to keep breathing. Because, again, the reminder that like you have a fortitude and ability to continue. And, also like the understanding that like your breath is like it's crazy how it really is the best indicator of where your anxiety is-is your breath. The deeper and slower you breathe, it's just truthful, that it's the more relaxed you are, you know and when you are nervous, your breath is shallow.
So when you take a second to like, think about your breath for a second and just say, let me remember to you know (takes breath), and you continue to do that. Not only is it an indicator, it's actually causing you to calm down, you know? I mean, it was my hope for those that are ever in an anxious moment or find themselves constantly in moments of anxiety that like, don't just breathe. I know it doesn't seem like it's working. I swear to you it is.
Seth Price 49:47
Yeah, no, I like that. I also kind of like thinking about that in a community. Like me seeing you you seeing me reminding each other looking at the dude across the aisle; we're not crashing today and even if we do It's probably gonna be alright, cuz you won't feel it. We're going to fast.
Propaganda 50:04
You not feel anyway, we’ll be fine.
Seth Price 50:06
I want to ask you two more questions, and then I'll let you point people where they need to be and get back to yelling at a printer; unless that's been…
Propaganda 50:13
Oh that’s been fixed I’ve got a yell at a child after this.
Seth Price 50:18
Just breathe, man. So hopefully not the six year old because she already don't like you.
Propaganda 50:25
She already don’t like me. And it don’t work for the old one, it don’t work, I’m just wasting my breath.
Seth Price 50:32
But it feels good.
Propaganda 50:34
It feel(s) great.
Seth Price 50:35
So I can't not talk about the church. Because…
Propaganda 50:38
Yes!
Seth Price 50:39
…that’s the itch…I just love it. Like, some people watch fantasy football, I come home and just read books on theology. So or you can't watch fantasy football. But you know what I'm saying?
Propaganda 50:49
I feel you, I follow.
Seth Price 50:50
What congregationally, like, as a body do you feel like if we do not directly be empowered to talk about is just going to explode the church as we see it in the years to come?
Propaganda 51:03
Oh, easy, race and sexuality!
And it’s like, you know, and you obviously tie that into politics, you know, which is like the third thing, But I feel like the politics part is not new, you know? And that is more indicative of the nation as a whole. Right? If we don't really reckon with like how bad we've become partisaned and separated. Just anybody that loves history, you're just like, a nation can’t sustain this, it's going to blow up. You know? So that's easy. But I think within the church if we don't talk about race and sexuality, yeah, you were dead in the water.
Seth Price 51:47
Yeah, no, I agree. Very much so, matter of fact, I have a good friend that works for the Evangelical Covenant Church is having their meeting right now. Yeah. And, and he's like, “yeah, that's up to talk about tomorrow”. I was like, “how's it gonna go”? He's like, “I have no idea". But everybody's stressed about it”.
Although today they they publicly condemned, as a congregation, the Doctrine of Discovery, which is cool that they even talked about it.
Propaganda 52:09
Let’s go! Yes!
Seth Price 52:11
He's like, yeah, “I'll send you the video like we have, because he's the dude that runs like the IT. So he's got the actual thing. He's like, I'll send it to him like, yeah, yeah. Which is cool. Because most, you know, we got the SBC doing their thing. And then we got them going. Yeah, this is a thing, which is great.
Propaganda 52:23
(SBC) Doing the polar opposite.
Seth Price 52:28
So when you try to wrap words around, like the divine, or God, what is that for you?
Propaganda 52:31
Man, I love that question, bro.
I think that after like touching soil in the Sinai Peninsula, like after you meet an Arab in an Arab community, you're it just like throws your categories out the window, I think in a lot of ways—in the best way possible. I think what it did was, in a lot of ways, it's sorted out the parts that were the bits that were American, the bits that were regional, and then the bits that are really transcendent. And then it blurred all those lines, like it was just the weirdest. I spent time in Morocco, I spent time in, you know, the West Bank, I spent time in Jerusalem, Palestine, you know, parts of Syria and you're like, Okay, so clearly, this is like, you know, fertile crescent, this is where my faith comes from. And then there's like, my time in Ethiopia and understanding like the African traditions about my faith, and just how much longer the church was in Africa before it was in Europe, just seeing all that you put it all together. And I think I finally understand the, like, Jewish tradition of not having vows and the word YHWH, of where it's like, this is just above us. You know, it is, and you become, I now am so much more fascinated and interested in, not in the bits of like, well, this is where your theology is off. This is where we're different. It's those parts that, the cream that, floated to the top that we all across generations, and across locations, all pointed at in awe and was like, but damn, there's that, you know. So that's the part that is now, that divine that transcendence is so much more intriguing. I'm so much more in love with that, that like, it makes me so much more careful to give it a name and to like, wrap a language around it because again, language is cultural. So I know once I wrap a language around it, I've already diminished it.
Seth Price 55:19
You’ve bound it?
Propaganda 55:20
Yes, I’ve bound it. So that's why I'm like, I understand now why the ancient Hebrews were like, we can't even under this name dawg. Like, it's so above us. You know, I'm saying that this is our best guess. You know? So I think for me, it's like the divine is that. It is those bits that are so transcendent that is so far above us, that are so full of beauty, that like, I don't have words for you know, yeah, I got hints of it. I got visions of it. We got pieces of it. You know, CS Lewis with the good dreams like God gave humanity good dreams. You know what I'm saying so I'm like, that's what I got. I got good dreams of this thing. That is like, above us all, you know.
Seth Price 56:11
Speaking of Syriac, like Ethiopian church, are you familiar with Dr. Vince Bantu?
Propaganda 56:19
Yes!
Seth Price 56:21
I assume you have his stuff.
Propaganda 56:24
Yes. He saved me! He pulled me off the cliff. He was one of the handful of people that like pulled me off the cliff because I was deuces. Yeah, I'm out.
Seth Price 56:36
I talked to him last year. And at the end, I was like, I don't I thought I knew some things. I didn't know. I didn't know anything. But yeah, where do people go? So you got 97 albums, apparently. (Prop laughs) Multiple books, like where do you want people to go to do the things?
Propaganda 56:54
Prophiphop.com has all my socials, has the book, has the links to the albums, has everything. And all my socials are @prophiphop.
Seth Price 57:06
I really thought you were gonna also say Hood Politics there. I'll say it for you. You do a side thing, Hood Politics. You should listen to it if you want to hear you laugh considerably more than you've done tonight.
Propaganda 57:19
I do laugh a lot on that show.
Seth Price 57:23
So see that's not a bad thing. Yeah, Prop. I really appreciate your time tonight. So very much.
Propaganda 57:27
Dude I’m honored man. Thank you for having me.
Seth Price 57:29
Yeah, my pleasure, man. It was a joy to have Prop on the show. And I look forward to doing it again. I got a lot out of that though. And I will also say his book and at least as of recording this right now. The one EP that is out The People is fantastic. They mesh so well together. It's almost like he wrote them (together) But you should really get a hold of it. I believe that I'm going to make it this month's…I'm gonna make it this month's patrons book that goes out. Because it genuinely is very, very, very good. I want to thank Clay for becoming a supporter of the show. People if you're listening, you should join Clay because he's really smart, and he wouldn't make a bad decision. And I also want to thank Forrest Clay for his music in the show today. You can hear the music from forest clay in the playlist for the show as well as links to that down in the show notes. Check him out. It is very good.
Seth Price 58:56
With that, I'm out i'll talk to you with a brand new episode in a few weeks and then next week obviously we'll have one of the replays as we're deep into summer. I hope that your summer is fantastic and is going well.